Calling Moggy--Aircraft in glider/paratroop operations

[Wudpecker]

Have any idea what aircraft were used?

I am thinking of using the "haze paint" P-38 for a reconn mission to add to the Glider Mod (if Pobs' reconn pics system can work out).

The U.S. side is pretty simple. Some top cover for Normandy, some ground-pounders. British controllers were used ( I had to build an entire new Speech2.CDF to deal with American pilots and British controllers)

For "Market Garden," there were more British aircraft, I think.

What of the British operations?
We don't have a Horsa.
We don't know what tow planes were used.
We don't know what reconn aircraft were used.
We don't know what areas were assigned to the Brits.
We DO have plenty of Spitfires and Hurricanes. Some Mossies and Tiffys.

[Moggy]

Hello Wudy - for towing aircraft you could think about the Stirling





The British drop was of course Arnhem itself

Night before the drop Bomber Command (23 Mosquitos and 200 Lancasters) went a visiting German airfields at Leeuuwarden, Steewijk-Havelte, Hopsten and Salzbergen, where aircraft were best placed to intercept the airborne forces in flight, also flak betteries at Moerdijk (5 Mosquitoes leading 54 Lancasters). The following morning 15 Mosquitoes led 85 Lancasters to bomb the coastal defence batteries at Walcheren.

The two trains of troop transports and gliders were covered by 1131 fighters and fighter bombers of the 8th & 9th Air Force and RAF ADGB - top and flank cover and the fighter bombers went after flak positions and flak ships off the Dutch coast.

The fight with the Luftwaffe went serious on the second day, by the end of the operation 159 German aircraft and 114 Allied aircraft had been lost.

The first Arnhem marker para drop was from Stirlings, Stirlings and Dakotas flew subsequent and supply drops through furious flak at Arnhem.

More when I can find it.

[Moggy]

See HERE

Operation Market Garden started just before midnight on Saturday 16 September 1944 when 200 Lancasters and twenty-three Mosquitos from RAF Bomber Command pounded four German fighter airfields in northern Holland. This was followed by 822 B-17 Flying Fortresses from the 8th Air Force the next day bombing the 117 identified anti-aircraft positions along the route the transports would take, as well as airfields at Eindhoven, Deelen and Ede. These were backed up by another fifty-four Lancasters and five Mosquitos, while another eighty-five Lancasters and fifteen Mosquitos attacked Walcheren Island. Losses were light (two B-17s, two Lancasters and three Mosquitos) and the attacks barely registered as unusual with the Germans as the Allies had massive air superiority in the west - to quote one German soldier "If you see a white plane, it's American, if you see a black plane it's RAF. If you see no planes at all it's the Luftwaffe". The Dutch Government who were in exile in London, called for a strike of all transport workers to coincide with the operation.

Sunday 17 September dawned bright and sunny. The airborne troops boarded their aircraft with the gliders and tugs taking off first at 09.30 and the C-47 Dakotas taking off later. The 101st took the southern route into Holland, while the 82nd and British 1st Airborne taking the northern route. The two columns of aircraft stretched for 94 miles (150km) in length and 3 miles (5km) in width. There were a total of 1,051 troop carriers and 516 glider / tug combinations (2,083 aircraft in all). Escorts amounted to 371 Spitfires, Tempests and Mosquitos on the northern route, and 548 P-47 Thunderbolts, P-38 Lightnings and P-51Mustangs on the southern route. The 117 anti-aircraft positions along the Market garden route were once again bombed and strafed by 212 Thunderbolts, while fifty Mosquitos, forty-eight B-25 Mitchells and twenty-four Bostons bombed military facilities around Nijmegan, Deelen, Ede and Kleve. Resistance from German fighters and anti-aircraft fire was minimal overall, but stronger nearer Eindhoven. The Allies lost some sixty-eight aircraft and seventy-one gliders from all causes, as well as two RAF and eighteen USAAF fighters.

[Wudpecker]

Thanks, Moggy.
Mustn't get too ambitious with the mod, but Brit aircraft woulid be a nice addition for Arnhem (and Knegel would love some German gliders--but that's too much for me right now).

Will do as much as we can with what we've got.

Did you ever read the English/Scottish Sergeant Pilot's story I did at Kilroy.org?
http://kilroywashere.org/009-Pages/09-0 ... ml#Wallace
(The pic of me the editor used is WAY out of date)

BTW, did you know P-38's towed gliders? There is a brief WACO towing sequence in this film: "Angels in Overalls"

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/MATINEE.html

[Moggy]

Brit aircraft woulid be a nice addition

It's Spitfires, Mosquitoes, Tempests, Mitchells Bostons and Stirlings then :-)

Did you ever read the English/Scottish Sergeant Pilot's story I did at Kilroy.org?

Just been there and a number of those great stories. Many thanks!

[Moggy]

BBC Arnhem animation HERE

RAF Order of Battle for Arhem HERE

General Arnhem order of Battle including Fighter and transport units HERE

Exact order of battle of British Air Despatch Units HERE - note Halifaxes and Albemarles were also used for towing duties.

US ditto HERE and HERE

Glider Pilot Regiment's diary HERE and HERE

Details and pictures of First Lift 17th September 1944 HERE Second lift 18th September HERE and third lift 19th September HERE

[Wudpecker]

Very helpful, Mogs...

Thank you much for taking the time. Definitely the right man to ask.
My head is spinning from "Market Garden".

We will probably start with Normandy because of the availability of aircraft supplies from Sandbagger's warehouse. But this makes Arnhem much more possible.

I suppose the same sources can be used for Normandy operations there (I've gone through your links, but haven't back-tracked on them.)

[Pobs]

woody,

what specifically do you need for Normandy, I have a good book on the air operations around D-Day that may help ...


cheers,


Pobs

[Wudpecker]

Ho, ho, Pobs.
Thanks for your interest.

What I need is a Horsa glider!

Can't really plan too much with just the WACO.

Edited Nov 4, 2006:
Ooops, I didn't mean to sound short with you, Pobs.
Of course I will need some info---it's just that I'm dead in the water, so to speak, on glider 3dz issues with the WACO and C-47.
And hoping against hope for a Horsa so we can do some mission planning.

Any mission ideas you have will be much appreciated!