Single Missions for AITW

To upgrade the aircraft and other objects in DOM's masterpeice and create a self-install version
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FreddyB
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Post by FreddyB » Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:08 am

Just a link to the French Order of Battle in 1940 :
(Moggy, you probably already have this link)
http://france1940.free.fr/adla/ada_june.html

Dutch Order of Battle in 1940 :
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks/1247/clv.htm

Belgian Order of Battle in 1940 :
http://france1940.free.fr/belgique/amb_may.html


RAF in France Order of Battle in 1940 :
http://france1940.free.fr/uk/raf_may.html

Freddy

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Post by Moggy » Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:21 pm

Thanks Freddy - I actually keep losing these orbats, so its useful to have them here.

One idea I was thinking about last night was having a single mission supplement to AITW.

AITW as DOM concieved is a pilot career mod, though it also does enable single missions to be flown on any date from 10th May 1940 to the French armstice and sets up the frontline accordingly.

I was thinking that I might perhaps add some historical single missions especially for the Dutch (the Fokker DXXIs taking out the Ju52s for example) and Belgian aircraft that could be loaded in the usual way.

FreddyB
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Post by FreddyB » Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:22 pm

Post a list of the French, Belgian, Dutch units you want to include, and I will try to collect single mission ideas. :)

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Post by Moggy » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:45 pm

The Belgian units will be:

1e Escadrille "La Comète" (1/I/2) Gloster Gladiator
2e Escadrille "Le Chardon" (2/I/2) Hawker Hurricane
3e Escadrille "Cocotte Rouge" (3/II/2) Fiat CR 42
4e Escadrille "Cocotte Blanche" (4/II/2) Fiat CR 42

and possibly

5e Escadrille "Faucon Egyptien" (5/III/3) Fairey Battle

The Dutch Units will be:

1st Aviation Regiment
2nd group
1 sqn Fokker D.XXI
2 sqn Fokker D.XXI
3 sqn Fokker G.I
4 sqn Fokker G.I

France I will have to think about - quite a number of fighter and bomber choices here. It would be good to get more escort missions on the French bombers.

FreddyB
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Post by FreddyB » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:01 am

A web site you should know about the French Units (1940 + Vichy + Free French) and their aces : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/frenchaces/p-copy.html

The Units : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/frenchaces/m+gc.html
(In blue, you will find the number of victories during the 1940 campaign)
It might help you to choose the French units which were the most involved in these fights...

GC I/5 (Curtiss) - 83 victories
GC II/4 (Curtiss) - 58 victories
GC I/3 (D520) - 57 victories
GC II/5 (Curtiss) - 54 victories
GC II/3 (D520) - 38 victories
GC I/4 (Curtiss) - 37 victories
GC I/8 (MB152) - 35 victories
GC III/2 (MS406) - 35 victories
GC III/3 (MS406) - 33 victories
GC III/1 (MS406) - 30 victories
GC II/1 (MB152) - 27 victories
GC I/1 (MB152) - 25 victories
GC I/2 (MS406) - 25 victories
...

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Post by Moggy » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:54 am

Thanks Freddy - extremely useful. Very good and detailed site.

Do you have any favourites, or any suggestions as to which French squadrons would be best to use?

We should have a new model MS406 from PGC. I have sorted out the RS problems, and it is already looking good. We will have the Sandbagger/ColGibbon hi-res D520 which I think will be stunning. We have a new model Curtiss Hawk by Captain Kurt, and your MB152 which you made for Dunkirk.

I have always thought that the air battle over France has received too little attention from historians, and I am very glad to see that that lack of attention is now being made up. I have always thought it interesting to consider the losses inflicted on the luftwaffe by the allied forces in France in the context of the assault later launched on Britain.

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Post by Moggy » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:33 pm

Looking just at the number of victories, and taking for a start one squad for each fighter type, this looks like:

GC I/3 D520
GC I/5 Curtis Hawk 75
GC I/8 MB 152
GC III/1 MS406

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Post by FreddyB » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:25 am

I studied several factors such as :
- Number of victories for each unit
- Most famous aces in these units
- Swiching to another plane in the middle of the campaign
- Airfields used : right theatre of operation (north or south)...

and finaly, I selected :

For D520 : GC I/3
For Curtis Hawk 75 : GC I/5
For MB 152 : GC I/8
For MS406 : GC III/1 (or GC I/2 - the famous "Cigognes"...)

These are the same choices as the ones you did. :D

The French Campaign is a very interesting one because there are many possible "What if..."
I don't think the French pilots prformed so poorly.

1) The problem came from the fact that Germany was on the offensive, and because the LW was attacking, it could always choose where to hit. So it was all about aircratf concentration at one point, at one moment.
The LW usualy gathered many aircrafts to hit hard its target, and because the French did not have the radar, it was difficult to gather enough fighters to intercept with good chances of success agains the German waves. This led French civilians and infantrymen to believe that the Armée de l'Air was never there to protect and support them, when waves of Stukas were flying over their heads. The myth of the French Armée de l'Air hiding, fleeing and avoiding combat came from this feeling.

2) The modern D520 came too late and were not enough to equip fighter units. The H75 and MS406 weapons were too "light" to severely damage bombers. It let many brave fighter pilots to stay too long in the line of fire of the bombers, trying to finish in vain some smoking airplanes.

3) Wrong fighting tactics

4) Lack of AA guns, compared to what the Germans could do to our Breguet 693...

5) Surprise effect which led to the destruction of many grounded aircrafts

No doubt that the French pilots in 1940 contributed to make the LW a little bit "too short" to fight the RAF some months later...

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Post by Moggy » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:13 pm

Okay Freddy, let's go with those French squads for some single mission packages.

In planning these missions you need to know that I have populated the unused slots in the original AITW and that we now also have

German aircraft

Ju52 (with paratrooper load)
Hs126

French aircraft

Bre 693 (in slot previously occupied by Amiot 354 - the Amiot remains but in one of the previously unused slots)
LeO 451

That's how the French bombers stand at the moment, the other alternative possibilities are the Douglas and the MB200 - what do you think?

More French bombers and the Ju52 and Hs126 should give more escort and intercept mission possibilities for the French/Dutch/Belgian squads, so that it isn't just fighter against fighter. I am aware that for example the Dutch fighters did quite well in attacking the mass formations of Ju52s on the first couple of days of the battle.

I agree with all that say about the French fighters in May/June 1940. The complaints you mention are exactly the same as the complaints the RAF had from the troops at Dunkirk - because they were not immediately visible and buzzing directly over their heads (as in the First World war) the army assumed the RAF was not there at all.

I think it is quite clear that the damage the Luftwaffe took in France and the Low countries, (but principally from the French fighters) in May/June 1940 certainly ruled out any immediate attack on Britain in June/July 1940, and most experts seem to think that was the only time slot in which any German invasion attempt might have had any realistic chance of success. It might therefore be argued that although the Armée de l'Air could not save France, it did play a significant part in saving Britain, and thus in the ultimate defeat of Nazi Germany.

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Post by FreddyB » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:54 pm

Good !
I have lots of hangarscreens which were left unfinished, and that I am going to release before the end of the month.

For the Armée de l'Air : D520, MS406, MB152, MB155, Caudron, Arsenal, Potez631, Curtis H75
You should find some interesting ones...
+
For Vichy : D520, MS406, MB152, Potez631, Curtis H75, Bre693
+
For FAFL : Spit IX, P51D, Hurricane (MTO), P39, A20

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Post by Moggy » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:25 pm

Hell Freddy - going to see if I can get AITW to use a different screen for each pilot career (i.e. each different squad), so there may be a good use for these individual aircraft screens.

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